I’m going to put this kind of close to you, just in case.
It’s okay. I’ll project. We’re good. Drama student.
Okay, beautiful. What is your name in and your name out of drag?
My name out of drag is Gavin Lesnevich. L-E-S-N-E-V as in Victor, I-C-H. And then my drag name is Holly Harkness.
Okay, beautiful. And what pronouns do I use for you in and out of drag?
She, her, both.
Can you describe your gender and sexual identity?
That’s kind of an ever-changing thing, but I very much like men, very into men. I say I’m gay sometimes, but I am a trans woman, so it’s just, whatever. But my view on womanhood is that it doesn’t… obviously there’s male sex, female sex, but then there’s the cultural connotations to those things, which are completely made up.
So, I try not to put a lot of pressure on myself to act super feminine, because I feel that’s limiting. Ever since coming out as a woman, I’m actually more comfortable with the quote-unquote masculine parts of me, because I’m secure in that womanhood, you know? And I think drag was the catalyst to that.
It’s the whole Sontag, ‘Notes on Camp’ thing, where when someone is doing camp, they are not a woman, but a “woman”. So, I am a woman, no quotation marks.
In drag, I am a “woman”, quotation marks.
And that’s different for some people. I don’t like to be, this is a horrible term to use, but fishy woman.
I like to live a clown life.
No, I think she’s… Bitty, bitty bum bum. I think she’s a huge part of who I am. I think she’s a lot of everything that I’ve wanted to be. She’s imagination personified. She really is my childhood imagination personified.
I love that.
So just witchy. Yeah, witchy, nasty. Just constantly being big and bold and loud.
And I think also, branding myself as a nasty, not generically pretty queen has given me a lot of opportunity to be like, I don’t have to look beautiful. If my lash is off, it doesn’t bother me. Because I know that I look nasty.
There’s not that much of that. But you look at the older drag queens. They’re not very pretty. They’re not super pretty.
Do you like Leigh Bowery?
No, I don’t know who that is. That’s bad.
It’s adjacent to Divine, kind of. Yeah, or Tim Curry and Rocky Horror.
Yeah. Stuff like that. Yeah, I like to look weird.
It was COVID times when I started. And my mom… she said everyone has to learn a new skill. What did you want to learn?
Makeup!
So, she bought me all the drag stuff, and then a few wigs. At first, I had those huge lashes. So, my name was Linda Lash, for a minute. But then WandaVision came out, with Agatha Harkness.
And I loved Catherine Han, and I immediately grabbed onto that character because I thought she was so me. So everything I loved about the witchiness kind of put all into one. And her outfit is so cool, too. Just like the look of it. Love it.
And also, making yourself a witch… you can be a Macbeth witch, or a gross, like… I don’t know. There’s just so much more agency and freedom when you’re just this ha-ha thing. You know? And I like that.
So, I made myself Holly Harkness.
Holly, just because…?
At first, I was Harley Harkness. See, you can’t really say it. But it just sounds like Holly. So, I thought, Holly Harkness is better. Harley was because Harley Quinn. I like Harley Quinn.
But Holly Harkness is just so much better, I think. And it’s more showgirl-esque, because I just wanted to be… yeah, just nasty, bitchy, showgirl.
The showgirl thing came into play because I started to learn about my family’s history with Vaudeville. They had a traveling group called Frank Dobson and the Sirens.
So, my family, Frank Dobson… the Dobsons… their main thing was burlesque.
Frank Dobson: he’s my great-great-great-great-grandfather. Frank Dobson and his 13 Sirens. So, there’s 13 of his women family members.
That’s crazy.
Yeah, and they all would go around the country, do burlesque acts. They performed at Carnegie Hall. They were known. And we have a bunch of pictures from those shows.
Interesting.
I remember looking at them.
Yeah, what did they look like?
Well, it was like traditional showgirl. They had the big feather pieces.
Wow.
Headdresses. And then these skimpy little bathing suits, basically. With jewels and everything. It was just so glamorous. And I think the idea of being a showgirl is so appealing to me. But also the twist on that is being the one showgirl who’s like… lipstick is smudged, who maybe fell over and busted her head before she walked on stage.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that concept is so cool. And I think the concept of that kind of comes from Chicago, too. Chicago is one of my favorite musicals. A glamorous showgirl all covered in blood who just feels so unlike… I think that idea is really striking to me.
Yeah. I really like that.
What do you define as your first performance in drag?
I was at the Lunar Fair in New Jersey. A lovely New Jersey drag queen named Cookie Doe just put out something on Instagram that was like, anyone who wants to show up, show up.
And my friend… we don’t talk anymore, but Saint Valentine, lovely performer… they were like, hey, Cookie’s looking for performers. Do you want to come do this? It was a newcomer’s one-minute lip-sync. Everyone does one minute. Damn. Insane. It’s like a quarter of a song.
Yeah.
I dressed up as a clown. I was half black, half white outfit, and half normal face, half clowny white face.
Okay, cool.
And the hair was falling apart. And I did “Circus” by Britney Spears. One-minute version. And it was fun. It was outside, in one of those places where you go see the cows during the State Fair. One of those cover pavilions. And the audience… it was bad. They were on bleachers, so you know how at Hens we can kind of walk up to you? They were on bleachers. So, I had this giant huge space that I’m just walking around in.
But then my second one… It was better. I did “Poison” by Bell Biv DeVoe, and that was Poison Ivy. It was a tiny, like, basement show.
Just a sliver of a runway for a stage.
It was just people screaming at you. And there was a pole, so it was… yeah, it was fun.
That was like my first, first time.
I got the bug.
And then when was the first time as Holly? Was it those times?
As Holly? That was… those were all Holly.
Have you gone back to a clown look?
Clown?
No. I think that was just for the song. I say clown in… I don’t know. In acting, we talk about your clown a lot - clown technique. And I think that technique has filtered a lot into my drag, because it’s all about staying open, staying released, and being available for laughs.
Yeah.
And kind of fully committing to something. And trying to get a reaction from people.
Do you like being called a drag queen?
I love being called a drag queen. I’m very much a drag queen. She’s a woman.
I don’t perform with queens very often. I think it’s just because, you know, I’m not performing at Pieces. I’m not doing that shit. I’ve had the opportunity to perform with a lot of queens.
And the queens are all that I’ve worked with. They’re very nice.
Um… except for…
Well… I hosted something at NYU. I go there.
I co-hosted with Mrs. Isabelle Brooks, like famous drag queen. She’s a huge cunt. She’s not… she’s not a HUGE cunt. She just wouldn’t take the time to really talk to me. And that was like… But, like… there are a lot of queens here that I really respect.
What is the thing that you love most about drag and performing? And what’s the thing that you hate the most?
Like, what do I really crush on?
I hate covering my brows. I think that shit is so gross. It’s so horrible.
How do you do it? What’s your process?
I’ve been shaving more and more of my actual brows out because I get so pissed off and I don’t want to do it.
You have really good eyebrows.
I do, but you can’t cover them. They’re AMAB-man eyebrows. So I have to… I’ve already shaved some of them off. They used to be longer. And I hate gluing down my brows. That’s the one thing I fucking hate.
Yeah.
How long does it take you to get ready?
I’m slow. I’m a good two hours. I stopped doing a crazy nose contour. I just do regular darker nose contour. I’ve been getting really basic lately because I enjoy doing the mix and doing the performance more than throwing the makeup on. I feel you can really just throw anything for me, at least for my character. I think she can really just throw anything. I can throw on a trash bag and then sew my way.
Do you have a good performance song or one that you feel works really well?
I do “Love Shack.” Yeah, I have beats planned out. I think I’m doing it at the 4/20 show, but it’s like no mix, just “Love Shack,” straight up. Everyone likes it. Everyone likes that song. And I feel like I have a good skeleton.
Also, “Drove All Night,” my Sandy one, I have a good single number. I love making mixes.
It’s made me realize I should be a woman. I looked to theater a lot to express my imagination. When I was in preschool, I would never want to play with anybody because I wanted to be in my own world. And that kind of a massive thirst to live in a fictional world was kind of quenched by theater.
But you’re playing a part, so you’re put into a box. I only got to really experience a male role and a goofy one, also not really a romantic interest ever. So that put me in a box. In high school, I started to feel it kind of artistically very boxed in by this binary. “You’re a funny man, that’s what you’re gonna do”. You’re boxed in. And I was like, why can’t I be a Beatrice? Like… fuck! What is the name of that play? “As You Like It,” “Much Ado About Nothing.” Why can’t I be a Beatrice? I’m funny. And also I got the man again. So drag really gave me the opportunity, especially at a time I wasn’t doing either, to create all these different realities where I can kind of be everything I wanted to be.
Well, you started drag by doing cosplays first, right?
Yes, I was cosplaying Scarlet Witch, Agatha, Poison Ivy, and a few anime characters.
I just thought it was all the parts I wouldn’t be able to play otherwise.
Do you think cosplay characters have influenced you?
Yeah, Agatha is a huge one, Agatha Harkness. Sarah Sanderson is a big one. I feel like Poison Ivy a little bit. Harley Quinn, actually, is a huge inspiration. Yeah, it was Harley Harkness. Harley Harkness… sounds like I’m just saying Holly Harkness in your Australian accent. It sounds like Holly. I’d always mistakenly say Holly instead of Harley, so I was like, it’s Holly now. I don’t care.
What kind of performance do you do outside of drag?
Outside of drag? I’m an actor. I’m going to school to get my acting degree. We’re still working on the BFA. I’m at NYU, and my teachers are so cool and willing to talk about how the techniques I’m learning apply to drag, which is really cool. Clowning technique is huge in drag. Movement techniques I found really useful in drag.
And just being able to create your own material. Because it’s a totally different muscle than script writing. I’m writing a script for Holly right now, trying to make a show for her. But like, making a mix is such a different thing. But I find that it’s still finding the way you find beats in a scene, you can find beats in a mix or in a performance.
Do you see yourself doing drag for a long time?
I don’t know. I think acting is kind of my first love. I think it’s going to have to merge. I think I’m going to be a very… not a drag queen, but a Cole Escola type. Always in drag. Col Escola and a John Cameron Mitchell type, where I’m just writing for my drag character and then doing cabaret and stuff. Because I’ve done a four-blow show and a Halloween cabaret, and that was so much fun. I want to make more Holly-focused theater.
Would you want to do recorded media?
I’ve haven’t done a lot of film, so I can’t really make a judgment on it. But recorded media, that’s just not… you know what I mean? I think part of what I love about theater and drag is that it happens in front of people.
Live performance is so beautiful because you’re really let into the world of this performer. I think the most generous thing you can do as a performer is share something with people right there. It’s also like the most traditional.
There’s just something about seeing people’s faces react to you. Especially with drag, you can see everybody’s stories.
I think I’m still gonna do stuff here over the summer. Just perform at things when I feel like it. Drag is still fun for me. I know a lot of girls are really serious about making it a business and making it their career, but I also love theater. I can act. I’m paying for a degree in acting, so acting is probably gonna be what I do. Drag will work its way into it, I’m pretty sure, and I’ll continue to do it because I think it’s fun.
Some drag queens do drag just to have fun and get drunk with their friends.
Okay, okay. Is there anything final that you would like to say?
Um… no, just that I love Bollywood music.
I love Bollywood music when it plays at my favorite lesbian bar.